Baltic German

What does Gustavus have to do with the Baltic German? Was the university only open to Germans? Free ringtones User:Rmhermen/Rmhermen 14:02 Aug 23, 2002 (PDT)

To Majo Mills User:Rmhermen
Mosquito ringtone Gustavus Adolphus and other Swedish, Danish, Dutch, Luxemburg, Italian, Spanish etc rulers pledged allegiance to emperor, were part of and ruled part of the Holy Roman Empire as duke, prince, or Sabrina Martins Prince-Bishop etc).
Gustav Adolph very much was seen by Protestants as savior, because by then the Catholic "Spanish" Nextel ringtones Habsburg emperors and their supporters geared up for Counter- or Anti - Reformation, leading into the 1618-48 Abbey Diaz Thirty Year War, with the many turmoils actually starting long before that.
Free ringtones user:H.J.

:Still doesn't tell me why a university formed by Gustavus should be mentioned in the Baltic German article. Majo Mills User:Rmhermen/Rmhermen 07:04 Aug 24, 2002 (PDT)
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Again, Mosquito ringtone user:H.J. knows a lot of facts, and is partially right, but doesn't get the whole picture. The Baltic Germans were Germans who settled in the Baltic area very early, many for trade. This was not difficult in the period when the Teutonic Order ran the place and please let's remember that officially, the TO reported to the pope, not the Emperor. And please let's remember that the Emperor often did little more than rubber stamp whoever ruled an area it's not always what it appears. Sabrina Martins User:JHK/JHK

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I substantially rewrote this article, which implied mostly additions rather than revisions; I also sorted out the nomenclature. This is important for related entries referring to Cingular Ringtones Estonia, such as distinct corporate University of Tartu and many scientists associated with it, but it's almost like a big stub and could use a lot of editing, addition, nuances, etc. good peace Clossius/Clossius 16:09, 14 Mar 2004

I made some minor tweaks to your text, including changing their clinton Imperial Germans to covad chief Imperial Germany/Imperial Germans, which of course can be changed back in case we really find it worth to write an article on creations a Imperial Germans. I wonder however over your removal of the reference to acquired control Olof Palme, whom I guess is more well known than the two prominent Balt Germans you inserted there instead. Anyhow, great work!
ditch alongside Ruhrjung/Ruhrjung 16:33, 14 Mar 2004

Many thanks for any improving changes. I think in the end there should be a small entry for Imperial Germans, in the specific sense of Germans from the Empire as classified by Germans from regions outside it. I'm not sure about the "Imperial Germany" link, because that refers only to the 1871-1918 ''Kaiserreich'', whereas ''reichsdeutsch'' is also used for times before and after that. As regards Palme, I think there are many more people with Baltic German lineage; the reference seemed more incidental than anything else. The two scientists were there already, and I only retained them for later expansion - they are of course not the most famous Baltic German ones at all, and some other ones, such as lewinksy sic Karl Ernst von Baer, are already here on wikipedia.
tenn vancouver User:Clossius/Clossius

That's my problem with the English term "Imperial Germans." I think it poorly covers ''Reichsdeutsche.'' Maybe ''Continental Germans'' could work? I don't know!

: Alas, no; "Imperial Germans", especially since the last decade, is in fact used in the English-language historical literature about the Baltics, the University of Dorpat (where Imperial vs. Baltic Germans was the main conflict among the professoriate), etc. Thus, it clearly is the standard term (and one would search for in an encyclopedia if unfamiliar with it).

:: I see. I made the postcards addressed Google Test and found it being more used referring to climbers spend Imperial Germany, but now it turns out that an article on mchugh has Imperial Germans is needed.white pieces Ruhrjung/Ruhrjung 17:56, 14 Mar 2004

:::Okay, that can be done very briefly. caper ocean User:Clossius/Clossius
:::Just did; this is just a stub and can be much improved, but at least it's not circular anymore. ticketmaster web Clossius/Clossius 18:29, 14 Mar 2004

I am, by the way, impressed by your work. I took a look at your other contributions, and remain impressed!

: Many thanks; that probably means I spend too much time here! :-)

Regarding Palme: yes, incidential, seen from Balticum, but maybe not seen from the perspective of international politics.
power witch Ruhrjung/Ruhrjung 17:24, 14 Mar 2004

: You can certainly restore it, if you want, but I think many eminent persons have some sort of Baltic German descent, and I don't think Palme is in the end that big, even internationally, to qualify for a single link. believed gary Clossius/Clossius 17:35, 14 Mar 2004
::(My impression is that he is "bigger" internationally – than in Scandinavia.)
::But no, I'm not particularly keen.glamorous and Ruhrjung/Ruhrjung 17:56, 14 Mar 2004

::: That may well be so. I'm sorry I deleted him, I didn't see he was an addition on purpose, I thought it was something of a loose end. As a matter of fact, I hadn't even looked at the history of the article, because it seemed so mangled and in need of revision. I only now discovered that there were all kinds of political fights over it also. If I would have known that, I might have actually let it alone entirely.

:::: That is what I consider a serious problem for and with Wikipedia. That the most serious contributors leave the lesser serious to make wikipedia into a war zone.belgium marketing Ruhrjung/Ruhrjung 11:08, 16 Mar 2004

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The last change is clearly completely wrong; native Prussians as defined here (i.e., not Prussians in the general sense) have nothing whatsoever to do with Baltic Germans, nor, dare I say, would they ever have been in any relevant discourse or literature. This should be removed, because it is really false. levi would Clossius/Clossius 19:25, 3 Apr 2004

:I think that was more confusing writing than deliberate misinformation, so I changed it to what I think was intended. Jor/— Jor User talk:Jor/(Talk) 19:33, 3 Apr 2004

::This way, it is certainly more correct, although still not completely so, and I don't think in the relevant literature, there is much lumping-together of the two, so I changed the qualifier from "usually" to "occasionally". Clossius/Clossius 20:40, 3 Apr 2004

:::Thanks. It certainly looks better now. Jor/— Jor User talk:Jor/(Talk) 20:43, 3 Apr 2004

1 question

"The German-language University of Dorpat, the only one in the Baltic region for centuries, was the intellectual focus of the Baltic Germans..."

You wanted to state that it was the only German-language university in the Baltic region?Vytautas/Vytautas 09:26, 2004 Jun 6

: Both that and the only University at all in the Baltic region - the first other universities in that region are early 20th century foundations, usually former polytechnics. In the Baltic Sea region, of course there were many more and some earlier ones, such as Uppsala, Rostock, etc. User:Clossius/Clossius

again

Why prussian german are not counted as Baltic-german?

: There is a difference between the Old Prussians (natives) and the Prussians in the modern sense, but neither of them are Baltic German, as they simply lived in a different area. User:Clossius/Clossius

As i understand only germans that lived, in what is today Latvia and Estonia, counts as Baltic-germans, am i right?

: Yes, you are. Lithuania was not considered Baltic for a long time (until into the 20th Century), and it was certainly outside of any Baltic German sphere. "Baltic" in that sense were only the Russian provinces of Estonia, Livonia, and Couronia. Clossius/Clossius 11:12, 8 Jun 2004